Garrosh P2 and P3

[shashlik]

Hi,

Just reading up for some tips on P2 and P3 and came across this:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1357932-Handling-Empowered-Whirling-Corruption

To summarise:

1) Use of smart raid cooldowns. How many of these are we using, and are we saving them for the Empowered Whirl? We need to sort this out and plan ahead. It is a bit like how raids how to chain cooldowns in Firelands on Staghelm if anyone remembers that. Before we have a next attempt on Garrosh lets please plan ahead - we have 2 EWC in P2 and we can plan for 1 in P3. What is the time difference between these and what do we have available?

From our raid setup, we have the following:
2 x Healing Tide Totem (raid wide healing totem, shamans)
2 x Rallying Cry (increases HP by 20% for 10 sec, warriors)
1 x Spirit Link Totem (10% damage reduction, small area, resto shaman)
1 x Power Word: Barrier (25% damage reduction, small area, priest)
1 x Anti-Magic Zone (40% magic damage reduction, small area, DK)

Too bad for no rogue or paladin as they have 20% damage reduction.

Also.. most classes have their own damage reduction ability. What is yours, did you use it last raid...?

2) MC is prio above all else. When MC is due we should stack up, stop dps on Garrosh/adds and interrupt and deal with the MC before anything else happens. Roth and I are taking turns to interrupt/stun/death grip to prevent the casts. If we are not stacking in melee range for MC like some strats suggest then melee need to go to ranged to help out. It is absolute priority in P2 and P3.

3) Desecrate - when this is due in P2 the ideal place for ranged to stand is against the wall. We haven't tried this before but it sounds like it should work - we will only get half a circle of desecrate and we can ignore the weapons without running out of space. Maybe we need to think about positioning to take advantage of this.

4) Only move when you have a puddle below you during Empowered Whirling Corruption. Get max range from Garrosh - when he is doing the EWC by the way tank healing should be light and we can use CD's so healers can get further away. Staying alive is prio, those who can off heal should probably do so - use any abilities you can do get aggro on your nearest add

If there is no puddle below you, you can safely stay and heal (or dps the small adds)

Anything else?

/Eres

[Mjöl]

From my Tought progress the Main subject currently in the encounter is for me to sort out a clear and proper tactic for this phases, in detail the handling of mindcontrols and where to lay weapons. The tactic to group at before every MC at the tanks is something that we probably should try, altough initally when i did read about that in a tactc i was deciding against it, because it makes the fight to one of that encounters to have to run in together somewhere, stand for a few seconds, then spread out again, then again back in etc, one of that ones that makes it very moving intense. In that second part of the second phase that might be tho the solution, altough theres then again the risk to have weapons on places where you dont want them at all.

We Locks have more damage Reduction CDs, altough i have to say i currently not alway use them because im more busy in checking out where the raid stands, where the purple spots/adds are etc. Have to say however i didnt die from the whirls on trys, i think thats because i also stand far enough away from it.

In general i will watch/study a few more guides, and will work out a tactic for us fitting for second part of phase2 and phase3. Everything til after the second transitionphase in phase2 really looks fine now, also the HP of Garrosh, hes on 40% when we come out of that second transition, which is alright i think.


Heres a quite nice 12 page long Guide to Garrosh, where i took a lot of info from. Unfortunatly its in GERMAN, but maybe some of you can understand a bit of it. Also i scanned it in with OCE, which means the text in there is actually copy+pasteabe - Google Translate can translate it in English.
The Good Part of this Guide is also on the last Pages there are class specific advices, about CDS etc - that one you should check if you can.

Also, what is extremly helpfull - and for what you not necessarly need German skills, is the Chart on the bottom of Page 3 - its a schemata of the timespans of Phase2 - makes it a bit easier to see how long there is time for what:

http://t-ray.at/garr.pdf

[Sempra]

I liked the idea of ranged standing against the wall at the back to start with, and then leaving desecrate there each time,
we could sort of stand next to the limit of purple each time, stacking up like the saws on Siegecrafter.
At the moment I know shaman totems are timed, and kept for second and third phases.
The AG + Asc is also brilliant, but that's if we have 2 healers.

Should we perhaps consider putting Nymph on the boss and another DPS to the engineers? My only idea behind this is Nymph can spam-tha-shit
He has time to do engineers and weapons, we should rather put him on the boss, another DPS on engineers, and me (or whomever) on weapons.
Possibly engineers and weapons to one person but that it hectic. I know some might be thinking no he's so good, but he's so good that it would help get Garrosh down faster those 2 phases.

[Mjöl]

Spam what Sempra ?

I not really understand your point ? The first phase is good, i dont see why to change something in phase1 ? The Warlocks are in this fight perfect on Garrosh and Adds with the aoe, then there are 2 melee who are not good on weapons/Engineer - so that leaves Nymph and you Sempra. Nymph is used to the engineers, has also that parachute thingy to quickly move around.

In Short, Phase1 works, why should we change it ? I also think the dps there is good.

Anyway, i did read your post now 5 times and still not fully understand what you wanted to say, i will ask you ingame this eve

[Roth]

I have a few suggestions:

1. If we don't stack on the tanks for the MC then melee should be ready to immediately move to any ranged MC to help burn down and interrupt. Me and Eres have worked out our rotation so we can take it in turns to help with MC but this should not be relied upon - all have to take responsibility to switch to MC immediately.

2. Off-healing during empowered corruption in P2&3 from Sempra is worth considering. Also, we could work out a system to chain our raid cd's. I know me and Callia will both have demoralising banner and rallying cry, so that's 4 for starters. I'm not familiar with shammys but Eres was explaining a talent option that all specs can take which gives a very useful healing cd - could Bish and Sempra take this if they don't already?

3. Use of healthstones/pots to keep topped up in an emergency. Any other self-healing options - any herbalists have that hot, warriors can take a hot talent - I'm sure most classes have a healing talent that could help on this particular fight while we learn it.

4. Knocking back/stunning adds to give more time to dps it and avoid damage.

5. Using one-use pots to boost dps/survivability - I pop one every attempt normally on 2nd or 3rd set of P1 adds to burn them down quicker.

6. I know this is obvious, but making sure everyone is using dbm and watching the timers. It shouldn't be necessary to have someone call out MC or whirl (although it helps) - check your dbm setups, move the timers etc. to help improve your awareness of imminent bad mechanics...

7. Practising dps rotations on training dummies. Practising situationally in heroic dungeons or proving grounds - even pvp helps as it helps hone your reactions (although I personally hate it!)

These ideas won't be everyone's cup of tea but after several nights wiping on Garrosh I figure everything is worth considering to help us get him down. We're almost there, we just need that extra edge. Another couple of nights and I'm sure we'll have him

[shashlik]

Spam what Sempra ?

I not really understand your point ? The first phase is good, i dont see why to change something in phase1 ? The Warlocks are in this fight perfect on Garrosh and Adds with the aoe, then there are 2 melee who are not good on weapons/Engineer - so that leaves Nymph and you Sempra. Nymph is used to the engineers, has also that parachute thingy to quickly move around.

In Short, Phase1 works, why should we change it ? I also think the dps there is good.

Anyway, i did read your post now 5 times and still not fully understand what you wanted to say, i will ask you ingame this eve

Maybe Sempra was alluding to the fact that Nymph can do more single target dps if allowed to stay on boss/adds in P1.. you locks have clever devices like portal+teleport to minimise travel time to the engineer while leaving dots on the boss/adds... however I agree that P1 is not an issue, we don't really need to change anything there and anything we do change will require some new learning on behalf of whoever does the engineer instead.

[Roth]

Has anyone read this?

Surprised no other opinions.

We need to down this boss. To do so, everyone needs to keep learning and applying themselves so we get better collectively.

Please read the above posts and think about what you can personally do to contribute more to make sure we are successful (finally!)

[Sempra]

I know nobody likes changing tactics after practising so many times, but please reconsider this video.
I'm not trying to be another Althos, but I genuinely think with the limitations we experience,
this will help. You can clearly see the benefits in how much quicker it gets to and through the last phase.
If people don't want to try it Monday, could it atleast be considered a go if we extend Wednesday or whenever next we get to Garry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3SI20ykiy0

Yes we had a bit of a crap Sunday, but like it was said, it wasn't 2.5 healers, only 2. And whilst anyone can argue and say "oh but other guilds do it with two",
they do it with pallys and druids involved aswell.
Our set up is not entirely optimal so we have to work around that. Also reading that some disc priests have movement issues and they'd rather stand on tanks,
but Gigz doesnt seem to have any problems with that. You might all think a shaman is great aoe heals, with everyone running all the time no it isn't.

We're practising a tactic that is not accustomed to us as a whole, but rather a general idea for everyone to follow.
There are a lot of other different little ways to do this fight, I'm only asking that this video gets reconsidered to atleast try something new to make it easier on all of us.

[Sempra]

I've got a few tips or ideas so please correct me if I'm wrong or this is already happening (I only look at bars so not entirely sure).

For P3 interrupts - could we work out that group 1 does interrupts on group 1 people first, and group 2 for group 2 first, and then whoever after.
I know the reasoning sounds awkward to understand, but I'm thinking what if 3 people are interrupting the same MC target,
with CDs also it might affect that second or third MC problem we're having. Again - I don't know if this is a viable idea, it's just a possibility
maybe something we can consider trying.

Also if Callia is away Wednesday, we could really use Bishnu's extra totems, especially for the EWC in P3, that's a &*()%^ to heal through.


On Shash's first post, that forum said that they are only dps-ing the first lot of adds in P3, and that the second just gets picked up by tanks and dps are doing the boss. Not sure how you feel about this?

[shashlik]

On Shash's first post, that forum said that they are only dps-ing the first lot of adds in P3, and that the second just gets picked up by tanks and dps are doing the boss. Not sure how you feel about this?

Are we expecting 2 lots of adds in P3? What does the timing look like for us...? I was thinking we would kite/tank the 1st set and that would be it. If we are expecting 2 sets we will need to do something else (whether that is killing the 1st set or having tanks kite and then ignoring the 2nd set I don't know).

[Mjöl]

1 set, cycle of th mcs is 1 minute, so second mc p3 would happen right there where he should die latest.

[shashlik]

Ah crap I tried to make a post from my phone but I see it failed.

The way I see the interrupts working (following on from Sempra's idea to split the groups) is thus:
1) Roth and I are never MC'd. We typically take 1 MC each - the current tank takes the melee MC and the other goes to range
This doesn't alway work nicely as we have ranged bias so we get 2 in ranged group. In that instance it doesn't really matter as we are speaking about P2 MC and they are getting stunned

2) In P3, Roth and I will still take 1 MC each and interrupt the 1st cast. Roth can take the furthest as he has a charge to get there with. If he is currently tanking I will take the furthest and use my ranged interrupt. We will of course switch batch to Garrosh if currently tanking him after doing the first interrupt.

If we have the groups split with 1 tank in each then can I suggest that each person in that group sets their tank as their focus.
Make a macro to target your focus' target or click it if that is what you do - that is your MC target. You burn it down.

/target focustarget

In terms of non tank interrupts we have:
Shaman - Wind Shear
Warlock - Spell Lock
Hunter - Silencing Shot
Monk - not sure the name but there is one

We should get the MC broken in two interrupts. Whoever can interrupt the 2nd cast should just do it.
If Havoc works with spell lock that would be amazing.. can any warlock confirm?

[Sempra]

This - we are not using it......but now we can cos it's a revelation

Monk Ring of Peace definitely works a lot better on the MCs for two reasons:
2. Once the MC ability from Garrosh becomes empowered, they can no longer be stunned by Leg Sweep, but can still be silenced by Ring of Peace.

Not so awesome cos melee get a little disarmed, but pro for ranged MC


Another small tip picked up - variable if you want to use or not like this

Lust in Phase 2, after the first Whirl. This will GREATLY reduce the amount of Empowered Whirls your raid has to deal with. Which means more DPS when it COUNTS.

Now I know everyone might think this idea sounds stupid - please think it over. Obviously we don't have that many problems in P1 & 2,
however there is something that could change the dps overall.
I came across a forum whereby a guild has been doing P1 & 2 just standing on the melee, P3 spread out.
Yes don't immediately think this is stupid, it has benefits. Nymph would still be doing the Engineers, everyone else hugging the melee.
And here's why - when those weapons drop (yes might be on melee), entire raid kills it within literally 3-5 seconds. Healers just heal through, no biggy.
Keep doing this, and nobody has to run or lose any dot or hot uptime.
Yes I know we run for like 3 seconds, but that's all it takes to drop some proc you could have got on Garrosh or an add.
It also makes MCs in P2 easier to handle.

Again - Yes I know we don't have much of a problem in P 1 & 2, but this strategy keeps dps to the max.
Please give it a thought, it might totally fail with the wheels, but it has massive potential.

[Mjöl]

Reich von Y´Shaarj = Transition Phase
Purple Markers = desecrated weapon
Blue Markers = Mindcontrol
Green Markers = Whirling Corruption
Red Markers = Empowered Whirling Corruption


I think we can agree that every Death until 5 minutes in Phase2 is due to a player mistake, until there its now pretty much routine.
When im not wrong then we had yesterday on our best try Phase2 at the moment we entered Transition2 at the 3:30 Mark Garrosh at 28%. In the transition Phase Garrosh heals for 10%, and we usually bring him down the same number roughly.
In tht try we came out of transition, we had 1 Empowered Whirling Corruption, and managed to bring him to phase3 then before a second one. The other times we had the second whirling corruption/adds when Garrosh was at 11%ish. This is problematic because to have a great phase change we should have a) no adds and b) this 6-8 seconds with his emote free to do heroism and do full dps on him.
So in my opinon we was just a bit short of dps to regulary reaching phase3 with 1 whirling corruption.

The only real remaining problem in the fight is the mindcontrol, and their especially the empowered mindcontrol in P3. Plus in the last phase the weapons are undestroyable, so they fill up the room at some point.

If i understand the heroism thing right, it would be hit at the 1 minute 30 mark in p2, there the first whirl happens. Even when that brings down a lot of hps, lets say optimitic +15% more, we would enter the second transition with him being at 13%, he would heal up for 10% inside there, we would come back out and probably would be able to manage to come into phase3 without a empowered whirling/adds. So the benefit would be no adds in phase2, the negative tho no heroism in the burn phase.

Anyway, i honestly dont see the need to change anything except a higher effecnicy in dealing with the mindcontrols, and a perfecting of the running/dpsing/healing/tanking/stay alive in phase3. Maybe in future we can modify/experiment with things like that, but for now: Dont change Things that work but need only Practice to perfect

[Longtool]

Spent the afternoon reading, and i know this is a lock thing

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8316591846

not much use for the other two talents in that section but could help dps us down.